Nope, two days of filming. Two days of editing. We need to check the footage on Wednesday, then you can shoot extra stuff on Wednesday afternoon if needed
they (the gods) never say. However, the chorus describes attributes of the gods and we need to apply their words to Creon/Antigone. Both characters claim that they are following the will of the gods. I think they both are, but both have the wrong motivation/attitude
each one comments on the story. Check the background on Zeus' punishment of Oedipus' family, and Ode 4 that sets Antigone as being like these other jailed women
good question. The line has passed to Eteocles, and he has a young son. So Creon is like a guest-king until the son grows up. Creon did the same thing when Oedipus' father had been killed
Why doesn't Antigone tell Creon that she is engaged to his son? Why did Ismene blurt it out? And why is Antigone so okay with knowing that she is going to die? Doesn't she care about her fiancé?
When Antigone blames her father for her death due to his "mingling" with his mother, is she agreeing with Creon when he said that Antigone is just like her father? (By not following laws and eventually leading to her death)
Not exactly Mr. Dorian, Death was his/her (never assigned a gender) own god called Thanatos, the greek word for death. so Death is not the ruler of the underworld and rather the god who took the souls of the dead to the Hermes to be taken to the underworld.
the Gods of hell were Persephone, Hades,Hermes, and Thanatos. Acheron being a dead soul was not a technical god. Persephone was not originally a god of hell however she is the wife of Hades and therefore has become one. Hades- Kept the dead in hell and ensured the punishment. Hermes- the one who brought the sould to hell. Thanatos- Harvested the souls of the dead as well as kept the doors to Tartarus sealed and kept track of who was to die. Persephone- was the daughter of Demeter who spent fall and winter in the realm of Hades and summer/spring with her mother.
look at Antigone's later imagery of "tomb" and "bride-bed." This is what Juliet and Lord Capulet echo...in fact Capulet used the imagery of assault/abuse to describe Death/Juliet
This is a much more "prose" translation than others. It does not replicate some of the line formatting, and trims elements that in the original version required strophe/antistrophe movements. Creon is told twice how his wife dies, which doesn't make "modern" sense
Aristophanes used Pluto on stage for a comedy. He's later than Sophocles, but shows the Greeks did use him. In fact, his Roman name is a Greek derivation
Scene 4; if Antigone is proud of what she did why does she want pity? Why does Antigone believe that everything was due to the crimes of Oedipus? Was everything really related to their parents/siblings or it was because of their own choices? Can everything be blamed on Oedipus? I mean he was grieved too and he didn't want it to happen either just like Polyneices, by judging Oedipus isn't Antigone kind of like Creon? Wait by being the son (Eteocles) of a sin, why does he deserve burial? Scene 5; *Why are Prophets blind and yet they are able to "see"? Does it represent how they always fail to see something in what they "see"? Also aren't they supposed to be pure (like no human desires; aka money/etc)? Why did Teiresias say/uses "deathly sick" to describe Creon? Why do kings prefer brass over gold? If the furies avenge violation of family ties, where were they when Eteocles broke his promise with the brother, Creon mistreated the Polyneices corpse, Antigone, and his own son? Why does he admit it's bad to risk things for stubborn pride when he wouldn't recede during the conversation with his son?... And now he respect the gods? What happened to the 'Noone shall bury him, I am king!' part?
good reading! 1) her flaw 2) looking to deflect blame 3) nope. She made choices! 4) Antigone and Creon are foils 5) Oedipus' flaw was pride, not the incest 6) like the idea of blinded to distractions 7) death=unburied body 8) brass=power, speeches 9) furies are strangely absent 10) learned his lesson too late!
If Oedipus flaw was his pride then why do everyone keeps repeating the incest between mother and son? (After reading this story I feel like these stories are breaking real life decorum?)
Why hadn't Creon called for Teiresias before he made the law about leaving Polynecies out, wouldn't it be smarter to have known what the future beheld first and save yourself from all the bad luck
When the Chrous claims Antigone's Death is by her own hand, does that mean they truely think she is wrong, or do they say this so that they do not anger the gods by associating with her death?
In the Exodus, Creon is talking to Choragus and he says "I was the fool, not you; and you died for me". What does he mean by that? Choragus is alive, so how did he die for Creon?
Based on what the Choragus said at tje end of scene 5; Do you agree with the statement that "There is no happiness where there is no wisdom; No wisdom but in submission to the gods. Big words are always punished, And proud men in old age learn to be wise"?
Isnt Creon not like Oediphius too? He wont yeild to anyone and even after all the signs, he still stays put and thinks people are out to get him. Does he think that his destiny is to be overthrown so he's trying to change it?
Often times, especially in tragedy, the protagonist is not the title character. Julius Caesar by Shakespeare- Brutus is the protagonist. Othello, Iago is the protagonist
it sounds that way. I have read criticism of the play that highlights the rash behavior of Antigone and Haemon. Their youth leads them to do rash things
keep going! Proud words... Old age... Maybe that's the tragedy of Antigone and Haemon. They followed rash, youthful impulses? Or is that just because the play is written by an old guy?
He might be so headstrong with the king/state thing because he fears that he doesn't have the right to rule. He is a regent, caretaker, of the throne until Eteocles' son is old enough to rule.
Gods like to punish the family of those who have committed a crime against them, like Prometheus who stole fire and gave it to man had his brother punished through the arrival of a heavenly wife named Pandora
Was the point of the prophet coming was to warn Creon of his future so he might as well be remembered by doing some good? By changing his mind about Antigone?
yes! The Greek tragedy has a moment called the anagnorisis where the protagonist make a key discovery. This is Creon's moment, and his knowledge brings tragedy as he is too late. Too late.
Fate when capitalized refers to the three Fates in Greek mythos. Daughters of Nyx and they are ironic in that their sister Hecate is the Goddess of magic and paths (as in life choices fork in the road stuff). but yes it is the same idea that Death referred to a god and Fate does as well.
great note on paths/fate irony! For Antigone (play/character), the references to Death/Fate is mostly personification rather than their more full religious/cultural identity
Can we have 3 days of filming and one editing?
ReplyDeletesee below
DeleteNope, two days of filming. Two days of editing. We need to check the footage on Wednesday, then you can shoot extra stuff on Wednesday afternoon if needed
DeleteLet me think about it. That implies editing will be done mostly at home?
ReplyDeleteAlso, we are limited to outside filming during the school day. Interior shots need to happen before/after school
ReplyDeleteAre the gods on antigone's side or creon's?
ReplyDeletethey (the gods) never say. However, the chorus describes attributes of the gods and we need to apply their words to Creon/Antigone. Both characters claim that they are following the will of the gods. I think they both are, but both have the wrong motivation/attitude
DeleteAre the groups going to show the videos to the class when They are finished?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteROUGH DRAFT
Delete12/19 Friday
(thx Jessica)
How long should the film be? And do they have to be shown in class?
ReplyDelete1-2 minutes. And of course they will be show. And edited to make a mega Antigone film!
DeleteWhen are we going to do our poems?
ReplyDeleteDecember 22+23, 1/2 each day. Selected by poem theme and volunteers
DeleteWhat are the purposes of the odes? (Each one seems to allude to a certain god or a well known character)
ReplyDeleteeach one comments on the story. Check the background on Zeus' punishment of Oedipus' family, and Ode 4 that sets Antigone as being like these other jailed women
DeleteIn the book , why doesnt the throne go to Oedipus daughters ? Is women not allowed to take throne
ReplyDeletegood question. The line has passed to Eteocles, and he has a young son. So Creon is like a guest-king until the son grows up. Creon did the same thing when Oedipus' father had been killed
DeleteFor the story of danae , I don't understand how Zeus changed into a shower of gold ? How did he impregant her as a shower??
ReplyDeleteask your health teacher. It's like he was the sun...
DeleteAre the odes important or nah
ReplyDeleteyes, very. They comment on the action, giving allusions to other myths. Also, they give the clearest picture of the gods in the play
DeleteWhy doesn't Antigone tell Creon that she is engaged to his son? Why did Ismene blurt it out? And why is Antigone so okay with knowing that she is going to die? Doesn't she care about her fiancé?
ReplyDeleteyou mean, use the marriage as an excuse? Antigone has a touch of that Juliet in her...
Deletebut it is odd that Antigone never mentions Haemon. One-sided?
DeleteIs there anymore symbolism we have not discovered? ������
ReplyDeletelots.
Deletecheck the blind prophet who sees more than those with sight
Deleteand fire. Lots of flame imagery
Deleteand what does Antigone use in her hanging?
DeleteWhy in Greek stories do the characters refer to other Greek people that aren't well known?
ReplyDeleteto us!
DeleteIf the Greeks were to watch Talk Soup or TMZ, they'd have no idea. Like me.
Is Antigone younger than Ismene? In Scene 4 she says to Creon that she is the last daughter of a line of Kings. What exactly does she mean by that?
ReplyDeleteShe is daughter of Oedipus. I've always seen Antigone as older. But let me research that...
DeleteDoes Antigone wish Creon the death he gives to get if she is found innocent
ReplyDeletebut that means she will be dead as well. You are correct, she wishes for truth to cause misfortune for Creon.
DeleteWhen Antigone blames her father for her death due to his "mingling" with his mother, is she agreeing with Creon when he said that Antigone is just like her father? (By not following laws and eventually leading to her death)
ReplyDelete"mingling" is such a brutal euphemism. But, no. Antigone is looking for an excuse/sympathy for her actions. This is what makes her flawed
DeleteDuring scene 4 while Antigone was talking about Niobe after that who was she blaming for her death. I can't find it. Or I'm not reading well enough
ReplyDeleteOh nvm. I found out
Deleteshe reacts to what the Choragus has said.
Delete:)
ReplyDelete"no emoji's"
DeleteWhat are hearths?
ReplyDeletefireplaces
DeleteHomes, or the floor in front of a fireplace.
Deletelmgtfy.com/q?=define%3ahearth
How does the story of Oedipus relate to what happened to the sons of King Phineus
ReplyDeletenot sure. Give what you see as a connection
DeleteI thought the response would be, "they were both blinded"
Deleteha! Why were they blinded?
DeleteAntigone is saying some of her last words..and she mentions Acheron. Who is that and how is he/she relevant? What about Epidus?
ReplyDeletepainful river of Hades
DeleteAcheron was a son of Nyx (goddess of the night, the roman version was Nox) who was the one who ferried the souls of the dead across River Styx.
DeleteIDK. share your myth knowledge!
ReplyDeleteCan you clarify the difference between Antigone's use of death and Death ?
ReplyDeleteloss of physical life=death
Deleteruler of underworld=Death
Not exactly Mr. Dorian, Death was his/her (never assigned a gender) own god called Thanatos, the greek word for death. so Death is not the ruler of the underworld and rather the god who took the souls of the dead to the Hermes to be taken to the underworld.
Deleteah, but how is Antigone using D/death? Remember, she is crafting her own personification of death, not exactly referencing Thanatos
DeleteWHAT DOES LINE 36 MEAN, AND AFTER THAT ANTIGONE GETS MAD, WHY?
ReplyDeletewhy you mad, bro? All CAPS
Deletewhat does she want from the Choragos?
DeleteShe wants pity
Deleteyes!
Deleteno emojis...
ReplyDeletethe Gods of hell were Persephone, Hades,Hermes, and Thanatos. Acheron being a dead soul was not a technical god. Persephone was not originally a god of hell however she is the wife of Hades and therefore has become one.
ReplyDeleteHades- Kept the dead in hell and ensured the punishment.
Hermes- the one who brought the sould to hell.
Thanatos- Harvested the souls of the dead as well as kept the doors to Tartarus sealed and kept track of who was to die.
Persephone- was the daughter of Demeter who spent fall and winter in the realm of Hades and summer/spring with her mother.
I think the reference to Acheron is a river, both in Greece and the underworld
DeleteThe river was the river Styx. And Cameron may be a river in Greece but on the topic of death he is the ferry man.
DeleteCharon?
DeleteYes Acheron my phone auto corrected it
Deletelook at Antigone's later imagery of "tomb" and "bride-bed." This is what Juliet and Lord Capulet echo...in fact Capulet used the imagery of assault/abuse to describe Death/Juliet
DeleteWill the gods ever chose who's side they are on ?
ReplyDeleteNo. The gods won't pick a side. They will be split and some even impartial.
DeleteOde two describes the judgement of Zeus on the house of Oedipus. Antigone tries to link her fate with this judgement, but the Choragos rebukes her
DeleteWho translated this version?
ReplyDeleteFitts and Fitzgerald
DeleteNvm I found it
DeleteThis is a much more "prose" translation than others. It does not replicate some of the line formatting, and trims elements that in the original version required strophe/antistrophe movements. Creon is told twice how his wife dies, which doesn't make "modern" sense
ReplyDeleteIt also references "Pluto" which is the Roman face of Hades
DeleteAristophanes used Pluto on stage for a comedy. He's later than Sophocles, but shows the Greeks did use him. In fact, his Roman name is a Greek derivation
Deletebtw: nice use of "face"
DeleteWhy does Teiresias say "you are king because of me" on line 64?
ReplyDeleteah, look at the background packet...it involves Oedipus.
DeleteScene 4; if Antigone is proud of what she did why does she want pity?
ReplyDeleteWhy does Antigone believe that everything was due to the crimes of Oedipus? Was everything really related to their parents/siblings or it was because of their own choices?
Can everything be blamed on Oedipus? I mean he was grieved too and he didn't want it to happen either just like Polyneices, by judging Oedipus isn't Antigone kind of like Creon?
Wait by being the son (Eteocles) of a sin, why does he deserve burial?
Scene 5;
*Why are Prophets blind and yet they are able to "see"? Does it represent how they always fail to see something in what they "see"? Also aren't they supposed to be pure (like no human desires; aka money/etc)?
Why did Teiresias say/uses "deathly sick" to describe Creon?
Why do kings prefer brass over gold?
If the furies avenge violation of family ties, where were they when Eteocles broke his promise with the brother, Creon mistreated the Polyneices corpse, Antigone, and his own son?
Why does he admit it's bad to risk things for stubborn pride when he wouldn't recede during the conversation with his son?... And now he respect the gods? What happened to the 'Noone shall bury him, I am king!' part?
good reading!
Delete1) her flaw
2) looking to deflect blame
3) nope. She made choices!
4) Antigone and Creon are foils
5) Oedipus' flaw was pride, not the incest
6) like the idea of blinded to distractions
7) death=unburied body
8) brass=power, speeches
9) furies are strangely absent
10) learned his lesson too late!
If Oedipus flaw was his pride then why do everyone keeps repeating the incest between mother and son? (After reading this story I feel like these stories are breaking real life decorum?)
ReplyDeleteThe incest is what causes so much pain for the family, but they are cursed because of his pride.
ReplyDeleteyes, it was not in keeping with decorum. However, in looking at how Zeus behaves you wonder where the lines of decency were for ancient Greeks
ReplyDeleteWhy didnt Creon kill himself?
ReplyDeleteto live with the pain. It echoes what Oedipus did
DeleteHow come the "gods" preferred opedis and not Antigone
ReplyDeletehmmm. Ode two describes how Zeus cursed the house of Oedipus.
DeleteOedipus staying alive was to fulfill the oracle, that the son would kill his father
DeleteWhy hadn't Creon called for Teiresias before he made the law about leaving Polynecies out, wouldn't it be smarter to have known what the future beheld first and save yourself from all the bad luck
ReplyDeletegood point. However, there's some backstory the textbook leaves out. Creon's son had died/been killed as a result of Teiresias' prophesy
DeleteHow is creon a king because of teiresias if he became King because his brother died and his nephews died and he was next in line for his family?
ReplyDeletehe was the regent because Eteocles' son was too young. Perhaps that is why he is so bent to be firm, he fears that he doesn't deserve the job
DeleteWhat is creon going to do if all his rules back fire on to him?
ReplyDeleteWhat did Oedipus do? These kings are tragic heroes...
DeleteWhen the Chrous claims Antigone's Death is by her own hand, does that mean they truely think she is wrong, or do they say this so that they do not anger the gods by associating with her death?
ReplyDeleteYESSSSSSSSSSSSS...
DeleteAntigone has done the deed, not Creon and not the gods.
DeleteShe did what Oedipus did: tried to take fate into her own hands, not listening to others
DeleteCan destiny be changed?
ReplyDeleteyes and no.
DeleteThe fates weave out life, especially when it is time to cut the cord.
The oracles often predict the future, and it is the faulty response of humans that make the "destiny" come true.
DeleteThink of Oedipus' or Laius' response
In the Exodus, Creon is talking to Choragus and he says "I was the fool, not you; and you died for me". What does he mean by that? Choragus is alive, so how did he die for Creon?
ReplyDeletehe's actually talking to...
DeleteCheck back at who used the term "fool" (Scene 3)
Why does creon say his son died for him if haemon killed himself because of Antigone
ReplyDeleteit's an echo of Scene 3...
Deletecheck who used the term "fool"
What is antigens last name
ReplyDeleteno name given...
DeleteShe is of the house/line of Oedipus
Based on what the Choragus said at tje end of scene 5; Do you agree with the statement that "There is no happiness where there is no wisdom; No wisdom but in submission to the gods. Big words are always punished, And proud men in old age learn to be wise"?
ReplyDeleteThe*
Deleteyes, yes I do!
DeleteIsnt Creon not like Oediphius too? He wont yeild to anyone and even after all the signs, he still stays put and thinks people are out to get him. Does he think that his destiny is to be overthrown so he's trying to change it?
ReplyDeleteyes! And that is why Creon is the tragic hero in the play!
DeleteAntigone does not lean to yield, and dies as a result. But Creon must live with his sorrow and new knowledge
ReplyDeletewhy is the play called Antigone if she is rarely mentioned or if she's barely in any of the scenes
ReplyDeletelove it!
DeleteThis should be called "Creon"
Often times, especially in tragedy, the protagonist is not the title character. Julius Caesar by Shakespeare- Brutus is the protagonist. Othello, Iago is the protagonist
ReplyDeleteIs the choragus claiming that it is a part of growth to be proud until you get older and become wise? Because he is claiming there is a cycle in place
ReplyDeleteit sounds that way. I have read criticism of the play that highlights the rash behavior of Antigone and Haemon. Their youth leads them to do rash things
DeleteWhen tiresias recounts about the birds telling him the future, is it possible that the idiom "a little bird told me" derives from this concept?
ReplyDeletelove it!
Deletethere might be a passage from the Bible that it comes from as well.
DeleteIs the theme of Antoine that there is no happiness where there is no wisdom or is there more to it?
ReplyDeletekeep going!
DeleteProud words...
Old age...
Maybe that's the tragedy of Antigone and Haemon. They followed rash, youthful impulses? Or is that just because the play is written by an old guy?
It's saying that there is no happiness where there is no wisdom and wisdom comes from old ages? But creon is old but he's not.
DeleteWhich "sticky situation" do you mean in question 6?
ReplyDeletecheck the Antigone background packet...it involves Oedipus
DeleteWhat do they mean by "their birds of omen have no cry of comfort" like why do they refer to the gods that way?
ReplyDeletethese are birds. But animals that voice the gods messages
Deletecry/comfort= alliteration and oxymoron
DeleteThank You ����
Deleteno emojis.
DeleteWhy is pride and money important to Creon?
ReplyDeleteHe might be so headstrong with the king/state thing because he fears that he doesn't have the right to rule. He is a regent, caretaker, of the throne until Eteocles' son is old enough to rule.
DeleteI am not sure about his fear of people being bribed...
DeleteCan you explain Creon's interruption of Antigone and the Choragus ? What does he mean by " if dirges and planned laminations..... "
ReplyDelete...can put off death, you'd sing a loooooooooong song.
DeleteWhy are the chorus and the choragus pleading to the gods in the Paean? And what do they mean (in line 16) by "across 6 the lamenting water"?
ReplyDeletethese plays were performed as religious festivals, so this is kinda "thanking the sponsors"
DeleteOops I didn't mean to add that 6 in there (it was part of the code to post the comment)
Deleteno foul
DeleteWhy is the whole city getting punished for what Creon did? (Not burying Polyneices)
DeleteGods like to punish the family of those who have committed a crime against them, like Prometheus who stole fire and gave it to man had his brother punished through the arrival of a heavenly wife named Pandora
Deletehis intention was to protect the city from traitors, but this ironically brings suffering to the city.
Deleteand Ode 2 brings up punishment on Oedipus' family
Deleteand nice work, Anonymous, for the Prometheus example
DeleteWas Choragus already on the side of Tiresias from the beginning and just agreeing with Creon because he was in power?
ReplyDeleteChoragus is the leader of the wise men of Thebes. Notice how Creon keeps insulting people for being old (Choragus and Tiresias) or young (Haemon)
DeleteChoragus offers questions, and these questions lead to character change
DeleteWas the point of the prophet coming was to warn Creon of his future so he might as well be remembered by doing some good? By changing his mind about Antigone?
ReplyDeleteYes, but his fate was sealed
Deleteyes! The Greek tragedy has a moment called the anagnorisis where the protagonist make a key discovery. This is Creon's moment, and his knowledge brings tragedy as he is too late. Too late.
Deletewell, the play suggests that tragedy happens as people try to fight fate
DeleteWhy is Fate capitalized in the Exodos? Reminds me of when Death was capitalized. Is it the same concept with Fate and Death being capitalized?
ReplyDeleteFate when capitalized refers to the three Fates in Greek mythos. Daughters of Nyx and they are ironic in that their sister Hecate is the Goddess of magic and paths (as in life choices fork in the road stuff). but yes it is the same idea that Death referred to a god and Fate does as well.
Deletegreat note on paths/fate irony!
DeleteFor Antigone (play/character), the references to Death/Fate is mostly personification rather than their more full religious/cultural identity