Can we have 3 days of filming and one editing?
Nope, two days of filming. Two days of editing. We need to check the footage on Wednesday, then you can shoot extra stuff on Wednesday afternoon if needed
Let me think about it. That implies editing will be done mostly at home?
Also, we are limited to outside filming during the school day. Interior shots need to happen before/after school
Are the gods on antigone's side or creon's?
they (the gods) never say. However, the chorus describes attributes of the gods and we need to apply their words to Creon/Antigone. Both characters claim that they are following the will of the gods. I think they both are, but both have the wrong motivation/attitude
Are the groups going to show the videos to the class when They are finished?
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ROUGH DRAFT 12/19 Friday(thx Jessica)
How long should the film be? And do they have to be shown in class?
1-2 minutes. And of course they will be show. And edited to make a mega Antigone film!
When are we going to do our poems?
December 22+23, 1/2 each day. Selected by poem theme and volunteers
What are the purposes of the odes? (Each one seems to allude to a certain god or a well known character)
each one comments on the story. Check the background on Zeus' punishment of Oedipus' family, and Ode 4 that sets Antigone as being like these other jailed women
In the book , why doesnt the throne go to Oedipus daughters ? Is women not allowed to take throne
good question. The line has passed to Eteocles, and he has a young son. So Creon is like a guest-king until the son grows up. Creon did the same thing when Oedipus' father had been killed
For the story of danae , I don't understand how Zeus changed into a shower of gold ? How did he impregant her as a shower??
ask your health teacher. It's like he was the sun...
Are the odes important or nah
yes, very. They comment on the action, giving allusions to other myths. Also, they give the clearest picture of the gods in the play
Why doesn't Antigone tell Creon that she is engaged to his son? Why did Ismene blurt it out? And why is Antigone so okay with knowing that she is going to die? Doesn't she care about her fiancé?
you mean, use the marriage as an excuse? Antigone has a touch of that Juliet in her...
but it is odd that Antigone never mentions Haemon. One-sided?
Is there anymore symbolism we have not discovered? ������
check the blind prophet who sees more than those with sight
and fire. Lots of flame imagery
and what does Antigone use in her hanging?
Why in Greek stories do the characters refer to other Greek people that aren't well known?
to us!If the Greeks were to watch Talk Soup or TMZ, they'd have no idea. Like me.
Is Antigone younger than Ismene? In Scene 4 she says to Creon that she is the last daughter of a line of Kings. What exactly does she mean by that?
She is daughter of Oedipus. I've always seen Antigone as older. But let me research that...
Does Antigone wish Creon the death he gives to get if she is found innocent
but that means she will be dead as well. You are correct, she wishes for truth to cause misfortune for Creon.
When Antigone blames her father for her death due to his "mingling" with his mother, is she agreeing with Creon when he said that Antigone is just like her father? (By not following laws and eventually leading to her death)
"mingling" is such a brutal euphemism. But, no. Antigone is looking for an excuse/sympathy for her actions. This is what makes her flawed
During scene 4 while Antigone was talking about Niobe after that who was she blaming for her death. I can't find it. Or I'm not reading well enough
Oh nvm. I found out
she reacts to what the Choragus has said.
What are hearths?
Homes, or the floor in front of a fireplace. lmgtfy.com/q?=define%3ahearth
How does the story of Oedipus relate to what happened to the sons of King Phineus
not sure. Give what you see as a connection
I thought the response would be, "they were both blinded"
ha! Why were they blinded?
Antigone is saying some of her last words..and she mentions Acheron. Who is that and how is he/she relevant? What about Epidus?
painful river of Hades
Acheron was a son of Nyx (goddess of the night, the roman version was Nox) who was the one who ferried the souls of the dead across River Styx.
IDK. share your myth knowledge!
Can you clarify the difference between Antigone's use of death and Death ?
loss of physical life=deathruler of underworld=Death
Not exactly Mr. Dorian, Death was his/her (never assigned a gender) own god called Thanatos, the greek word for death. so Death is not the ruler of the underworld and rather the god who took the souls of the dead to the Hermes to be taken to the underworld.
ah, but how is Antigone using D/death? Remember, she is crafting her own personification of death, not exactly referencing Thanatos
WHAT DOES LINE 36 MEAN, AND AFTER THAT ANTIGONE GETS MAD, WHY?
why you mad, bro? All CAPS
what does she want from the Choragos?
She wants pity
the Gods of hell were Persephone, Hades,Hermes, and Thanatos. Acheron being a dead soul was not a technical god. Persephone was not originally a god of hell however she is the wife of Hades and therefore has become one.Hades- Kept the dead in hell and ensured the punishment.Hermes- the one who brought the sould to hell.Thanatos- Harvested the souls of the dead as well as kept the doors to Tartarus sealed and kept track of who was to die.Persephone- was the daughter of Demeter who spent fall and winter in the realm of Hades and summer/spring with her mother.
I think the reference to Acheron is a river, both in Greece and the underworld
The river was the river Styx. And Cameron may be a river in Greece but on the topic of death he is the ferry man.
Yes Acheron my phone auto corrected it
look at Antigone's later imagery of "tomb" and "bride-bed." This is what Juliet and Lord Capulet echo...in fact Capulet used the imagery of assault/abuse to describe Death/Juliet
Will the gods ever chose who's side they are on ?
No. The gods won't pick a side. They will be split and some even impartial.
Ode two describes the judgement of Zeus on the house of Oedipus. Antigone tries to link her fate with this judgement, but the Choragos rebukes her
Who translated this version?
Fitts and Fitzgerald
Nvm I found it
This is a much more "prose" translation than others. It does not replicate some of the line formatting, and trims elements that in the original version required strophe/antistrophe movements. Creon is told twice how his wife dies, which doesn't make "modern" sense
It also references "Pluto" which is the Roman face of Hades
Aristophanes used Pluto on stage for a comedy. He's later than Sophocles, but shows the Greeks did use him. In fact, his Roman name is a Greek derivation
btw: nice use of "face"
Why does Teiresias say "you are king because of me" on line 64?
ah, look at the background packet...it involves Oedipus.
Scene 4; if Antigone is proud of what she did why does she want pity?Why does Antigone believe that everything was due to the crimes of Oedipus? Was everything really related to their parents/siblings or it was because of their own choices?Can everything be blamed on Oedipus? I mean he was grieved too and he didn't want it to happen either just like Polyneices, by judging Oedipus isn't Antigone kind of like Creon?Wait by being the son (Eteocles) of a sin, why does he deserve burial?Scene 5;*Why are Prophets blind and yet they are able to "see"? Does it represent how they always fail to see something in what they "see"? Also aren't they supposed to be pure (like no human desires; aka money/etc)?Why did Teiresias say/uses "deathly sick" to describe Creon?Why do kings prefer brass over gold?If the furies avenge violation of family ties, where were they when Eteocles broke his promise with the brother, Creon mistreated the Polyneices corpse, Antigone, and his own son?Why does he admit it's bad to risk things for stubborn pride when he wouldn't recede during the conversation with his son?... And now he respect the gods? What happened to the 'Noone shall bury him, I am king!' part?
good reading!1) her flaw2) looking to deflect blame3) nope. She made choices!4) Antigone and Creon are foils5) Oedipus' flaw was pride, not the incest 6) like the idea of blinded to distractions7) death=unburied body 8) brass=power, speeches9) furies are strangely absent10) learned his lesson too late!
If Oedipus flaw was his pride then why do everyone keeps repeating the incest between mother and son? (After reading this story I feel like these stories are breaking real life decorum?)
The incest is what causes so much pain for the family, but they are cursed because of his pride.
yes, it was not in keeping with decorum. However, in looking at how Zeus behaves you wonder where the lines of decency were for ancient Greeks
Why didnt Creon kill himself?
to live with the pain. It echoes what Oedipus did
How come the "gods" preferred opedis and not Antigone
hmmm. Ode two describes how Zeus cursed the house of Oedipus.
Oedipus staying alive was to fulfill the oracle, that the son would kill his father
Why hadn't Creon called for Teiresias before he made the law about leaving Polynecies out, wouldn't it be smarter to have known what the future beheld first and save yourself from all the bad luck
good point. However, there's some backstory the textbook leaves out. Creon's son had died/been killed as a result of Teiresias' prophesy
How is creon a king because of teiresias if he became King because his brother died and his nephews died and he was next in line for his family?
he was the regent because Eteocles' son was too young. Perhaps that is why he is so bent to be firm, he fears that he doesn't deserve the job
What is creon going to do if all his rules back fire on to him?
What did Oedipus do? These kings are tragic heroes...
When the Chrous claims Antigone's Death is by her own hand, does that mean they truely think she is wrong, or do they say this so that they do not anger the gods by associating with her death?
Antigone has done the deed, not Creon and not the gods.
She did what Oedipus did: tried to take fate into her own hands, not listening to others
Can destiny be changed?
yes and no.The fates weave out life, especially when it is time to cut the cord.
The oracles often predict the future, and it is the faulty response of humans that make the "destiny" come true.Think of Oedipus' or Laius' response
In the Exodus, Creon is talking to Choragus and he says "I was the fool, not you; and you died for me". What does he mean by that? Choragus is alive, so how did he die for Creon?
he's actually talking to...Check back at who used the term "fool" (Scene 3)
Why does creon say his son died for him if haemon killed himself because of Antigone
it's an echo of Scene 3...check who used the term "fool"
What is antigens last name
no name given...She is of the house/line of Oedipus
Based on what the Choragus said at tje end of scene 5; Do you agree with the statement that "There is no happiness where there is no wisdom; No wisdom but in submission to the gods. Big words are always punished, And proud men in old age learn to be wise"?
yes, yes I do!
Isnt Creon not like Oediphius too? He wont yeild to anyone and even after all the signs, he still stays put and thinks people are out to get him. Does he think that his destiny is to be overthrown so he's trying to change it?
yes! And that is why Creon is the tragic hero in the play!
Antigone does not lean to yield, and dies as a result. But Creon must live with his sorrow and new knowledge
why is the play called Antigone if she is rarely mentioned or if she's barely in any of the scenes
love it!This should be called "Creon"
Often times, especially in tragedy, the protagonist is not the title character. Julius Caesar by Shakespeare- Brutus is the protagonist. Othello, Iago is the protagonist
Is the choragus claiming that it is a part of growth to be proud until you get older and become wise? Because he is claiming there is a cycle in place
it sounds that way. I have read criticism of the play that highlights the rash behavior of Antigone and Haemon. Their youth leads them to do rash things
When tiresias recounts about the birds telling him the future, is it possible that the idiom "a little bird told me" derives from this concept?
there might be a passage from the Bible that it comes from as well.
Is the theme of Antoine that there is no happiness where there is no wisdom or is there more to it?
keep going!Proud words...Old age...Maybe that's the tragedy of Antigone and Haemon. They followed rash, youthful impulses? Or is that just because the play is written by an old guy?
It's saying that there is no happiness where there is no wisdom and wisdom comes from old ages? But creon is old but he's not.
Which "sticky situation" do you mean in question 6?
check the Antigone background packet...it involves Oedipus
What do they mean by "their birds of omen have no cry of comfort" like why do they refer to the gods that way?
these are birds. But animals that voice the gods messages
cry/comfort= alliteration and oxymoron
Thank You ����
Why is pride and money important to Creon?
He might be so headstrong with the king/state thing because he fears that he doesn't have the right to rule. He is a regent, caretaker, of the throne until Eteocles' son is old enough to rule.
I am not sure about his fear of people being bribed...
Can you explain Creon's interruption of Antigone and the Choragus ? What does he mean by " if dirges and planned laminations..... "
...can put off death, you'd sing a loooooooooong song.
Why are the chorus and the choragus pleading to the gods in the Paean? And what do they mean (in line 16) by "across 6 the lamenting water"?
these plays were performed as religious festivals, so this is kinda "thanking the sponsors"
Oops I didn't mean to add that 6 in there (it was part of the code to post the comment)
Why is the whole city getting punished for what Creon did? (Not burying Polyneices)
Gods like to punish the family of those who have committed a crime against them, like Prometheus who stole fire and gave it to man had his brother punished through the arrival of a heavenly wife named Pandora
his intention was to protect the city from traitors, but this ironically brings suffering to the city.
and Ode 2 brings up punishment on Oedipus' family
and nice work, Anonymous, for the Prometheus example
Was Choragus already on the side of Tiresias from the beginning and just agreeing with Creon because he was in power?
Choragus is the leader of the wise men of Thebes. Notice how Creon keeps insulting people for being old (Choragus and Tiresias) or young (Haemon)
Choragus offers questions, and these questions lead to character change
Was the point of the prophet coming was to warn Creon of his future so he might as well be remembered by doing some good? By changing his mind about Antigone?
Yes, but his fate was sealed
yes! The Greek tragedy has a moment called the anagnorisis where the protagonist make a key discovery. This is Creon's moment, and his knowledge brings tragedy as he is too late. Too late.
well, the play suggests that tragedy happens as people try to fight fate
Why is Fate capitalized in the Exodos? Reminds me of when Death was capitalized. Is it the same concept with Fate and Death being capitalized?
Fate when capitalized refers to the three Fates in Greek mythos. Daughters of Nyx and they are ironic in that their sister Hecate is the Goddess of magic and paths (as in life choices fork in the road stuff). but yes it is the same idea that Death referred to a god and Fate does as well.
great note on paths/fate irony!For Antigone (play/character), the references to Death/Fate is mostly personification rather than their more full religious/cultural identity